How Does South Asian Culture Influence Parenting?

How do cultural backgrounds shape our parenting styles? What are the unique challenges faced by South Asian parents? How do we balance Eastern and Western influences in raising our children?

In this insightful episode of Changing Suits, hosts Bal and Taj explore the intricate dynamics of parenting within South Asian culture. They are joined by Black and Brown Parenting coach Maryam Javaid, who brings a wealth of knowledge and personal experience to the discussion.

Maryam shares her unique perspective on the good and bad aspects of both Eastern and Western cultures, shedding light on how these influences shape her approach to raising her children. Together, they delve into their own upbringing, contrasting the methods they grew up with to the approaches they embrace now.

Tune in to "How Does South Asian Culture Influence Parenting?" to gain a deeper understanding of the complexities and nuances of parenting in a multicultural context. Discover the balance between maintaining cultural heritage and adapting to contemporary values, and learn how these elements impact the development and well-being of children.

Join Bal, Taj, and Maryam for an engaging conversation that highlights the evolving landscape of South Asian parenting. 

Subscribe now to Changing Suits Podcast and be part of this enlightening dialogue! 

🎙️ #SouthAsianParenting #CulturalInfluence #ParentingCoach #ChangingSuits #MulticulturalParenting

Transcript

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my mission is to change the narrative of growing up in an ethnic household. There's so many things that my parents didn't allow me to do. We're giving ourselves permission to critically think about things so that we can improve things for the next generation. Hi, welcome to Changing Suits. My name's Val. And my name's Taj. On this week's episode, we thought it was really important to talk about one of the reasons that we started the podcast off. Now, as you know, we talk about cultural taboos and, you know, the impact that it's had on us as a generation, but how is it that those cultural taboos, not only the taboos, actually, culture in general, actually, the goods and the bads, How should we then be passing that down to our kids and what change can we make for the next generation? So on this week's episode, we have the pleasure of being joined, sorry, I don't know why I'm stuttering, I'm like, oh really, I'm really nervous. Hahaha! We've got Mariam here today, the founder of Black and Brown Parenting, and we want to talk about culture and the impact on kids. So hi Mariam, how are you today? Hi! Hiya, I'm absolutely amazing. I'm really excited to have this conversation. So first of all, thank you for inviting me and having me on. Thank you. So what do you do and what do you talk about on your social media first? Let's start off there. Okay, so my name is Mariam. First of all, I'd like to say that I'm a homeschooling mum of three, so it's a bit wild. It's usually quite wild in my house on an everyday basis. But other than that, I am the founder of Black and Brown Parenting, so I am a parenting coach. I'm also a public speaker, and I, essentially, my mission for Black and Brown Parenting is to really just change the narrative of growing up in an ethnic household. I'm sure we're all aware of what the narrative is at the moment, which isn't always the case. positive at all, unfortunately. So it really is about changing that, not only for this generation of mothers, but the next generation of children and mothers and parents too. Can I ask, sorry, go on Taj, we're going to, this is going to, yeah, this is going to be one of those conversations because I know me and Taj are really passionate about this topic. So we're going to be throwing questions at you left, right and center. I, I realize you've been homeschooling by the way, so we'll totally talk about that later. You come in here, go for it. Can I ask, what do you mean by changing the narrative? Let's start off with that. Okay, so the narrative at the moment is Anywhere where I speak at an event or a school or workshop, I always ask this one question. And the question always is Describe three words that you would use to describe the experience of having grown up in either, you know, any ethnic household. And unfortunately, the words that are thrown back at me from the audience are always, you know, controlling, voiceless, suppressed, those sort of words. But it's a, it's a nuanced conversation because on the other hand, I do get people who also throw words such as, you know, responsibility and loving and family. But I think there is a lot of cultural, what's the word we should use? There's a lot of cultural, I guess, stereotypes when it comes to being brought up in either a black household or a brown household. I think, I'm sure we'll talk about it, but a lot of it does come from, you know, previous generations and what they've experienced and all that they knew. And it's just, I guess, cycles being passed on, which we have obviously the privilege to, to change and improve. So right back at you, what are the three words that you would use? Ooh, oh gosh, right, yeah, put me on the spot. Like I said, I am sitting in my parents house. I'm like, how are you? Okay, I would say, I would say controlling. I think, yeah, definitely. I would say controlling. I would say responsibility. And the last one would probably be resilience. So I'm just about, I'm just taking the show over here now. So, you know, you use the word controlling. Now as parents, as we grow up, do you think we've got more, I'm trying not to put words in your mouth, but more of an understanding of why they were controlling? Because as a parent, it's really hard to navigate the journey. You don't want your child to be hurt. And sometimes that's the only way you can do it. Like, okay, don't go out, don't do this, don't do that. Just because you want to protect them so much and you don't want to go. So not from a negative point of view, seeing it from the other's point of view of how the parent feels. Absolutely. You know, it's so interesting that you said that because obviously I'm a mother of three girls now. And just yesterday I was having this conversation that there's so many things that my parents didn't allow me to do. Obviously there was no explanation given for why I wasn't allowed to do that thing. But in hindsight now as a mother, I understand, thank God I wasn't allowed to go there or do those things because actually it protected me from a heck of a lot. But I think That's the I guess the hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially when you become a mother now that you understand. However, again, there's always nuance the conversation where I do believe that if our parents perhaps had the knowledge that we do today, very, very privileged and the tools that we do today, perhaps they would have been more of an explanation as to as to why maybe we wouldn't have been over the moon about it or happy about it. Yeah, there would have been some sort of explanation there. But yeah, that's an amazing question. But what you've just said there is, I totally agree with that. It's that explanation. And yes, kids won't be like, Oh yeah, that's fine. They've explained this. But it is that explanation. Because there was a talk that I went to a while ago and it really made me think because we are Now in the generation, and we were part of starting in that generation as well, of the why generation. Why is that the question? You, I think it's at age two or three where you, the child always like, why, why, why? My, my nephew started to say, Kyon, Kyon. But that, that is the thing. And that's not something our parents grew up with. Was it, it was very much an authoritative, that if they say it, that's it, that's what's, what's done, isn't it? It's just a different model. Absolutely. Do you know what, also, Bar, I was going to say, what's really interesting about that is, so I didn't mention this, I, I, as, I studied, my undergraduate degree was actually in South Asian and African colonial history, so that's why black and brown parenting kind of meshed the understanding of generational trauma and the experiences of partitions and enslavement and all of that, and how that trickled down into dysfunctional behaviour and became cultural norms. So my question that I always like to throw out is, well, how much of our culture is actually indigenous, indigenousness indigenously our culture and actually how much of it is just a ripple effect of what our community has faced. And naturally that has a ripple effect on our households and what we have, you know, now said is normal. And now we're the generation where we're questioning and we're like, well, Is that, is that normal? And where does that come from? And, and why? Yeah, such a different way of looking at it. But could I say, do you think we're this wide generation because we've got more time on our hands than our parents did? Because our parents, you've got to credit them, they've come to this country, they've made it easy for us, they've built our foundations, and we're just kind of living off it. We're working, but we didn't have to work as hard as our parents did. So they didn't have that time to be, have that explanation time. It was just go, go, go for them. So again, I'm being the parent here. Just on that point, I think it's really interesting, but again, when we started the podcast off and it sounds like we, we're going to have very similar views on this, Mariam, to be fair you and us, I mean, me and Taj obviously come as a pair now, people don't know the difference between us, just because we're Asian but. We, it's sort of come full circle, and I'm sure just with the fact that you've done the history behind it, and you can educate us more on this. When we started the podcast, we were looking at taboos, and obviously that very much comes with a negative connotation of, oh look, this is a negative of culture. And I feel like I've come round in a circle to say, yes, exactly, where did colonialism have an impact on this? But also, we're actually so lucky to be as part of this culture as well. Yes, there's negative. But we've sort of thought actually there's a lot of positives as well and we don't appreciate those positives. And that's the issue with bringing out the negative issues. So just like when you go to the crowd and say give us three words. I'm sure most of the time it's going to be three negative words. But if we actually think, There's a lot of positivity as well, isn't it? Absolutely. Do you know, before I speak anywhere, I should have probably done this, but I always say disclaimer. Disclaimer! Like, this is not, when I'm in my coaching spaces, or when I'm speaking at an event, I say this is not a space for us to now sit here and start bashing our parents and our culture. That's not what this is about. However, what it is about is we're giving ourselves permission to critically think about things so that we can improve things for the next generation. And I think you've touched on something really important. And it is true that our parents and our grandparents generation, they did not have the privilege to think about any of the things that we think about. So while we think about self development, how we can improve as parents, their focus was ultimately on safety and security and having a roof over your head and food on the table, literally that was there. And so I always love to How we have to honor and accept that we do stand on their sacrifices. And I believe there's a quote, but I always misquote it. So I've got it completely wrong that it's, we start, I think it's the. They, the, the ceilings that they smash, like we stand on the floors of that. So essentially we stand on their sacrifices and we have to accept that they did the hard work of coming to, you know, the Western countries. And now here we are, we're living where we're, we're living off of that. So absolutely. But can I ask on that point, then, why do you think, and us included, we have gone to the negative first? Why do we think we are the hard done generation? Because you hear it all the time, I mean, we talk about it, you know, we had so much, and there is gender inequality, that was obviously one of the topics for us to talk about, because we're three sisters, and that obviously brought about. And again, you've got three daughters, so you're going to mention that we'll go into that a bit. Why is it that we do do that? I mean, why do we feel like the hard done by the generation compared to the previous ones? I think we are the generation that is willing to accept. I think it's, it's we are the generation that is willing to accept that we're hurt. And we experienced a lot of pain. And that's not to say that the previous generation didn't, because Yes, they did. But mental health isn't even a thing for them. Like, what is that? Like, you're depressed? Like, what does that mean? Go take paracetamol, right? What does that mean? So, I would say is, I think we're more willing to accept our experiences because we're so desperate. I can speak for myself. I think we're so desperate to not have the next generation experiencing what we did. So we're willing to feel the pain. And again, I'm going to misquote it, but it's I think it's generate like it cycles. I'm going to completely misquote it. It's, things go in cycles, like one generation has to feel the pain for the next generation not to experience that or feel that, something like that. I love that, I'm just going to be correcting you two in your sayings. Do you think, one thing I feel, I know, How do you guys feel about this? Do you think that we're making the next generation very soft, as in they find it hard to cope with things? For example, my daughter, when they were allowed to use phones at school, Oh mama, I can't, you know shall I do this? Shall I do that? Oh mama, I feel upset. And I'm like, yeah, you know, guiding her throughout the whole day. Do you think now our kids are too soft? Whereas our parents generation, they just have to get on with it. And we were kind of like that as well because obviously we were brought up by them, but now we're trying to almost rectify the experiences that we had and we're making the next generation so soft now. That's a really good question because you know, actually, I get a lot of pushback for that, obviously, as you can imagine from our communities, it's. Oh, you're just, you know, like soft parenting and what is this about? And, you know, they, especially with boys and even with girls as well. I think I would say it's not that they're soft. It's that they're actually in tune with how they feel with their body, with their minds, their emotions. It's not to say that didn't exist for us. It did. However, we didn't have the space to actively, maybe verbally express that, or have space to even, you know, have a little cry or, you know, express a different opinion. I think it was definitely shut down very, very quickly as, as you mentioned, the authoritative, sort of, authoritative sort of nature. But even for our grandparents and our parents, something that I get a lot is, well, Mariam, you're just blaming the parents. And why is this generation just blaming the parents? And my answer is, well, actually you're not. In questioning these things, in working on yourself and healing from your experiences, you're not blaming them, but actually maybe you're giving them a voice that they never had. Maybe you're actually going back and You know, working on your emotions because they couldn't do it and that's a privilege and I just want to share a little thing here So I took my kids to Eminem world just the other day with my mom and my mom said to me, you know You know, she said it and she said it in order But she said, you know you you guys enjoy like you you enjoy like it makes me happy when you enjoy because we never We never got to enjoy that. We never got to do these things and it makes me happy. And the guilt, I think it's like, it's so emotional because the guilt you get from that, just from being able to, you know, enjoy and have that joy, whereas they were so focused on just, you know, bless this, I was so focused on security and all of those sorts of things that it's as if you're experiencing it for them at the same time, because they didn't get to, but can I just bring you up to this conversation before I stop really quickly? For anyone that's listening to this, it took me the longest time to sit here and say, and you know, I have empathy for my mom and I have empathy for my father and I get it. And it took me the, I'm the oldest daughter. It took me the longest time. You were the guinea pig and then the rest of the kids were like, yeah, do what you want to do. Literally. And I think the reason why I want to just say this is because I think for a lot of people, mothers that I speak to, they still harbor a lot of resentment, a lot of anger, a lot of pain. And I get that because I've absolutely been there. And it is a journey of kind of really unraveling things within yourself. And I think motherhood really brings that out of you as well. When you, when you realize that, Hey, actually. I don't want to do this to them, which means I need to work on myself at the same time. You know, the older generation, when you give them a gift, they're like, oh, no, no, don't, you know, why are you buying it for me? Don't waste your money and stuff like that. And like you said, they appreciate and they're happy with when their children are happy. Yeah. Again, it's like we're playing versus, you know, the older and the younger. But the younger generation, do you think they're a bit more selfish? Whereas the older generation, they're like, Everything give, give, give. And the younger ones are take, take, take, and they won't mind if it was just them that was happy rather than everyone around them. I mean, it was something you just said, and it's connected to what you've just said as well, Taj, as well. Something you've said, Mariam, in regards to when you took your mum. And I, just as you said that, I could tell me and Taj got a bit like, oh, slightly emotional there because Do you think we're then the generation that has the guilt of our parents didn't experience it, and we've got the, oh, and I know as soon as you said that I was like, Oh, I do, I felt myself tearing up a bit. Yeah. But then we're also doing it for the next and we're feeling bad that will the next generation. is too soft or we're making them whatever and we're taking that sort of blame onto ourselves as well. I feel like we're the generation that looked after our parents and made sure because they came from different countries where the English might not have been very good, we were sorting out them. Then we've got the next generation because we want to be the generation that sorts out all the trauma to make sure the next generation doesn't get it. Do you think that's just us putting, you know, like when, when we, like mothers always have guilt, right? I mean, I don't think there's anyone that can't say that. And if they do, we need to get them on the podcast. But do you think we're doing too much on ourselves of saying, well, we feel guilty about everything? Yeah, I think we're definitely the sandwich generation where we want to fix everything that happened to them and then make sure, ensure it doesn't happen to the next generation and it's, this is an interesting point and I would go as far as saying that I think that our generation of mothers are probably so consumed with fear of not messing up the next generation so much so that it just sucks the joy out of them. Being a mum or just sucks the joy out of life sometimes. And we can be really hard on ourselves. And what I try to remind myself of is whether or not we realize it, our parents definitely have broken cycles that maybe we aren't aware of. We don't know because they don't talk about it, bless them. And then they find it difficult, but we have to accept that they have in the same way that we won't break every single cycle that's impossible, but we will break, let's say two out of five, for example. And then it's on the next generation to break the rest. So it's, it's a process. It's, we need to take, this is a reminder to myself, take off the load that we have to do everything because we can't, it's impossible. I want to bring the conversation back to the fact that you have, and then we do, I do want to move on to the fact that you do have three daughters and, you know, the, the pressures that brings itself as well because we are, like I said, the three daughters that experience certain things. But before we do that, you sort of mentioned that, Your your past, you didn't undergrad, a graduate degree looking at colonialism and you know, anyone that listens to our podcast knows that I've become more and more interested in, in our past. And that's one massive thing that I don't know enough about. Can you explain to us what you meant by the fact that, what was what is the difference in culture and what was then passed on and what, what did you take from your undergraduate degree that impacts you now? Okay. So I think there's a lot of angles to this, but I'll try and take it from two different angles. So I think with the parenting angle, again, when we spoke about cultural norms and we think about parenting in an ethnic household, it's always, okay, well then it's the hitting, it's the shouting, it's the screaming, shaming, comparing, criticizing, you know, right. Which is the norm basically, which we want to get rid of. But then it was, for me, it was, well, where did those norms come from? So when I studied my undergraduate degree, actually, when you look at pre colonial life in, you know, South Asia, just broadly, there was little to no evidence of that being a way that we parented. And actually, if, for those who are familiar with attachment parenting, which is essentially just parenting with love and treating your child like a human being, no joking. That's the way that we parented pre colonialism. So even if you go back home, where back home is, you know, you will notice that children just live amongst adults. It's not separate. It's not, Oh, I'm going to be in the kitchen. Let me quickly set up an activity for you so you can keep busy. Whereas back home it's, you know, help me in the kitchen. Or, you know, you just like little kids are like, if little kids or older kids, everyone's just getting involved. It's a very community, communal parenting type of feel. Whereas obviously here. the way that we parent now is obviously completely different. But again, back to what I took from my degree. So that was pre colonial times. And then obviously given what our, just South Asia, very, very broadly, again, I'm speaking experience in terms of, you know, partition and families being ripped apart and women being raped and, you know, it's just absolutely horrific. Naturally, that's going to have a ripple effect. On someone's mind, on someone's body, in terms of the trauma they experience. And that translates into dysfunctional behavior. And then a dysfunctional behavior in one household, in another household, another household. Because I remember I asked myself the question, well, what is culture? And the definition of culture is a large group of people repeating, doing something like customs over and over and over again. And then you get to the point where it's like, okay, well, culture can be changed. It can change. Right? So if it can be changed, then we can be the change. And obviously it's easier, easier said than done, but it can be changed, which brings me to how I would love to say, I'm going to be really careful saying this, but a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, Western principles, you know, even if we look at natural living, I mean, if you go to the coffee shop now, you can get, what do they call it? Something latte. Yeah, chai latte, or you know, like my mom, when we grew up, it was like haldidud, right? We used to drink that, right? So a lot of our indigenous, you know, recipes of healing and ancestral and all of those amazing things that we have in our culture is now being discovered by, you know, Europe or Western or whatever have you. And we're like, wow. Oh my God. God, it's like no way. Your grandma told you the same, you know, the other day, but you didn't listen. This is what I say to my husband. So you know how the So I go to my husband, drink it and then he's like, no, no, no, I'm not going to do any of these Indian old things. As soon as he reads it in a magazine by someone, a white person, He's like, oh yes, I've got to do it, make it, and I'm like, excuse me, our grandparents have forethought whatever, doing this for generations, but that, no, that's just old stuff, isn't it? Yeah, and the old stuff works, and yeah, sorry, go on. And we've had this conversation before and that's exactly how it is that someone on a podcast previously said, you know one of my friends introduced me to all these creams and stuff, cause I'm not very good with the whole skincare and stuff, but she did introduce it. And I was like, that's perfect. I got on a podcast and one of them said, did your grandmother wear all of these creams? And no, cause then they used, what deal was it? I've forgotten which oil it was. I'm like, that's a good point. So I've just finished a whole load cause I don't want to spoil it. I'm thinking I need to, I've got a natural book that dad had bought from India. I need to have a, have a read of that. Okay. So going back to it, that also translate to translates to us as well, because we can't say that everyone else does it. We do it ourselves. Taj's husband and I have just done the same thing. And obviously, why do we do that then? Why do we say that what is now going on in the Western cultures is, yes, we agree with the chai latte, even though my bimbi was saying it ages ago, but it's rubbish. Why, I think I would say we are conditioned to believe that what the white man says is better. That's it. That's what I would say because, again, it roots back to colonialism, you know, we could talk about colorism and we won't because that's a big conversation but again it's the same thing. It's whatever standard that the white man sets. is always better than what your grandmother told you, even though it's exactly the same thing. So something that I also talk about in my spaces is the concept of decolonization. But decolonization isn't just about land. It's also about decolonizing what's up here and actually what you've conditioned, not you've conditioned yourself, but actually what you've been programmed and conditioned to believe about certain things about beauty and about the way you raise your child and the foods that you eat. So one small example is my kids. Oh my God. My girls, they're like, mama, we don't want cereal. We don't want toast. Can we have the biryani that you made last night for breakfast? And I'm like, mate, what are we going to eat for lunch then? If you eat that, you know, but they love, they, they love to eat. I'd love to eat that. And then my husband said to me, why do you stop them? Like, you know, when you go back home, like we're eating curry for breakfast, like that's the normal, right? Literally, you make the lunch. But it made me think that, you know, when we think about decolonizing the way that we live and, and actually that's part of it as well. It's so, it's such an interesting conversation, but yeah, it's all part and parcel. Yeah, that is true, because when you go back home, you have probably roti for breakfast, roti for lunch, and But let's just say, when we go back, we know that we're going to do it, so we make sure we have all the English food that we can here, before we go, because you know you're going to have three roti, aren't you? Times have changed now. They probably have more takeaways than we do, so That is true. But yeah, we went in October. That's exactly what happened. Decolonize it. So how would you do it? I know this is not, this isn't the conversation. And by the way, for listeners, if we had told Miriam, yeah, I've sent you what we're going to roughly talk about. It's totally not what we're going to talk about. But how would you just summarize, how would you decolonize your mind? Because we're, we live in the UK and there's brilliant things in the UK that absolutely, but that's one thing I think is important. Although we're saying there's things that, you know, I'm going to say education, but I know that it was a big, a big thing in colonialism, which like actually the education was pretty good before. How can we sort of decolonize our mind and actually say, well, this is part of the Western culture and Eastern culture and we live in the UK, so we're actually compatible as well. What do we do before we go on to the actual parenting part of it? Sorry, I know. Okay, I would say is, for me, it always starts with questioning. For me, it's always with questioning, always. So it's the example that I gave you, obviously for breakfast, sometimes as a parent, you always just say no to things, like even as a mother or as a woman, just generally, you always just find yourself saying no to things, or perhaps like, you know, you, you doubt yourself on certain things. And just asking yourself why, when you've accepted How to say, when you find yourself, I guess just, I think it really is more about just becoming more intentional and purposeful with how you live your life, essentially, but I would say also it is about obviously seeking more knowledge and obviously given everything going on in the world, there's so much access to obviously tools, resources, online, offline books, I think it's just seeking, seeking knowledge if you, you know, honestly, something that I regret if you've still got your grandparents about, you know, Speak to them. That's something I regret. I remember, like, my, my grandmother may Allah, may Allah, God bless her soul. She sat me down in the kitchen for about six hours, and she was talking about the partition, and she was telling me stories, and I was a teenager at that time, so I was like, God, this is so long, right? But now I just like, what I would give, what I would give just to sit with my elders and just hear those stories and just learn from them. Sorry, I know I'm going off on, off on one, but you know what I would give, because again, going back to decolonizing is you, you can learn so much from their wisdom and their insight. And actually then you begin to question, okay, well, you know, maybe this way that I'm doing things is maybe I want to try it this way or, but yeah. How about we read us back both of you? So can we talk about, because again, this is really something that is close to our heart, having three daughters, because we're three daughters of a family as well. Do you think you've had to have a different parenting style to if you had boys? That's really interesting. I've never thought, I mean, yes, no, yes, yes, because I know that gender norms exist generally within the culture. And so for me, It's really interesting, when someone asked me, someone once asked me on a podcast, they said to me, who is Mariam? And she said, don't tell me your titles, don't tell me, I don't want to hear any of that, who are you? And it was, I mean, if you asked me five years ago, I wouldn't have been able to tell you. But, where am I going with this? The question was, do you think you would have brought up sons differently, if you had a boy? To, to your daughter. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Sorry. So where I was going with it is essentially, I would describe myself as someone who pretty much breaks every rule in the book. Literally. I was always questioning things. I was a little bit of a rebel, you know, a little bit of a nuisance. But your parents love that. Growing up. Yep. Trust me. Yeah. But you know, it's like, well, well, I've got one brother and I'm three sisters as well, funnily enough. So it was, well, why is he allowed to do that? Why is he allowed to just get up and go out? And, and we're not, why do we have to come home by a certain time? Why don't we have to help you in the kitchen? And he doesn't, you know, why, why? And we will always sort of questioning these things. And my mom would just kind of shove it off and say, Oh yeah, he should, he should. Yeah, he does. Really? Get on with it. But I would say is someone that I don't speak about very much just because I'm a private person is my husband. And I would say that the way that we've raised our girls is, a lot of it is down to him because they very much see him in the kitchen. Bless him. They very much see him involved in the household chores. They very much see all of that. So for them, that's very much the norm. So the way that I've raised them is very different as in I've created that culture of actually, well, it's a man and a woman's job to cook and clean. It's a life skill. It's not about what gender you are. And in the same way, you know, a woman can go out to work or she can work from home. It's just, It's like, it's a life. These are all life skills, you know cooking, cleaning. And, you know, it's really funny because I bought my eldest a sewing machine and my mom said to me, you don't know how to sew, right? Your daughter knows how to sew and she's interested. So it's, I think these are all life skills. So definitely I would say that I've intentionally have raised my girls very differently, perhaps to the way that I've been raised in the sense that it's, these are all life skills. It's not because. you're a girl and you must do this. How would you go forward? Because we say, oh, our parents are very controlling, but in a way controlling is setting boundaries and rules. How have you made sure that isn't felt by your kids and they don't grow up and say, oh, our parents are very controlling? Sorry, just before you come in on that, Mariam. And it's interesting because if we call it from an Asian perspective, it's control. If we call it from a Western perspective, it's boundaries. So it's between control and boundaries, essentially. Okay, this is a really interesting question. So I would say from my perspective is the reason why we use the word control is because it's this is what I said. No questioning. That's it. That's going to happen. That's that's the control. And. I always use the word strict and I always put an asterisk star next to it because strict is when there's no explanation, when there's no other sort of option. So going back to the question, I would say the difference between control and having boundaries is in the explanation. It's in there. So what I do with my girls is we don't call them rules. We call them agreements. So we've sat down, my husband and I, and the girls, and they're the two older girls, they're older, so we can have those conversations with them. Whereas the three year old, like she has no. So it's, we've, you know, like, for example, how many hours of screen time are we going to have? Or what time do you have to come home? And it's something that we've agreed together and we might not always meet in the middle and it might be, Oh mama, that's not fair. And it's, that's where it comes in where you're like, well, I'm your, I'm your mom. I have to keep you safe, you know, physically, mentally, you might not understand it now, but later you will. And I think that's where it's, it becomes an agreement. And what happens is they feel valued and respected because you've actually taken them into account. You've taken their opinion into account. Whereas the control that we're talking about is that's it. This is what I've said. That's it. And actually, I think Well, I always go as far as saying that I think if we do use the control, it does lead to children, you know, to lying, living, living a double life. And, you know, all of those sorts of things that happen within our cultures and communities, some of which we may have experienced ourselves. So I think it's really important to have boundaries, very, very important to have boundaries, but you can implement them without it feeling like a big punishment. I think for a lot of us, we haven't experienced what that feels like because the boundary has always been quite harsh. But then I would say that a boundary can also be loving and firm at the same time. You could, those two things are absolutely possible. What do you mean by you said leading a double life. Oh, sorry, Val. She's over bothering looking at the screen. So interesting. I'm trying to get everything out, but I will let you have the next one, Val. So what did you mean by leading a double life? We all know what you mean, but we want you to explain it. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So a double life is obviously being one way at home and one way outside. So essentially, you know, you know, doing things behind your parents back and, you know, going to places maybe where they wouldn't approve of, or, you know, going somewhere with your friends where they wouldn't approve of, and pretending they're actually, you're in the country, but you're out the country, and, you know, like, those sort of things, because you're not allowed. That's a very extreme example. I have not done that. I was going to say, oh my god, your parents listen to every single one of my songs. I promise I haven't done that. Really? I shouldn't have put that one. But essentially, it's, do you know what, essentially, on a serious level, I think it really comes down to being two separate people and not being allowed to be authentically who you are in your home. Because you feel like you have to suppress those parts of you because they're not accepted. And then when you're outside, which is your double life, you feel like you can just, you know, be authentically who you are, perhaps with your peers and with your friends. And you can't do that at home because there's just no space for it. You know, there's no space for. Exploring those things or expressing those things because they're either shamed or ridiculed or shut down whether, whether intentionally or unintentionally, there is that aspect. Can I come back, you can have this one. Thank you. This isn't a question I was going to ask 30 people. Where do you say you're living a double life and you know you're out there and you're a different person? I'll come back and say, well, actually, are we not all just different people to different when you're in front of different people, essentially? So what's the difference with, so if I'm, you know, when I was now I can pretty much just say what I want because it's our podcast, so we can, you know, if you want to listen to it, if you don't, that's fine. But when I was at work, I wouldn't be saying certain things that I'm saying here in the conversation, cause they're not politically correct. You can't say certain things cause it might be deemed unpopular as it were. But then is that me li li I know this sounds like a really basic question. Is that me then living a double lie? Where you're just different around certain people, more professional, you might be at home, you're lounging around in your, you know, homeware, which I'm in. When you have the phone voice, you're like, hello, how do you do? Yeah. Yeah. What's the difference between that? And then, and I understand what you mean there, what both of you have meant in regards to, you know, if you wanted a clubbing, but you wouldn't tell your parents, that essentially is what, what ended up happening in our generation. Mm hmm. Going out with people without telling their parents because you weren't allowed to do that. You know, staying past, well we never escaped, I don't know if this is just a bit of a white one where you escape out the bedroom window because obviously everyone living, we weren't allowed to do that, we couldn't open the bottom window because it would seal shut. I'm only joking it wasn't. Now that looks bad. But are we not all just living, that's just life isn't it, it's not living double life, it's just you're going to pick up on certain parts. Yeah, no, I think that that's this is a really important differentiation as in what you're saying is even myself I may be one way here and obviously with my kids I'm not going to speak the same way and obviously in my workplace I'm not going to speak the same way that that that completely. But I think what I was alluding to is the the authenticity part where it's, well I hold a certain opinion but I'm not allowed to express it here because oh my gosh it's going to be trouble. I better not say that right. Or, you know, I feel like I have to say, you know, I saw a meme. Where he was, it's not funny. It was a, the, it was a Harry Potter meme where he says, I'm just going to be in my room, you know, pretend really quiet and pretending that I don't exist. And someone said, Oh yeah, this is the typical, you know, ethnic child yeah, ethnic child you know, experience, but you know, some things like that, where you feel like, you know, just feel really unsafe and you just feel like you're walking on eggshells so much so that actually I'm just going to go and recluse in my room because, but I'm not saying anything or someone's going to say something to criticize me or say something to, you know, just, Just the small things that I'm sure a lot of us have experienced that does definitely have an impact on your self confidence and on your self esteem. I think those are the things that I was definitely alluding to. 100%. I mean, Mariam, I totally got what you, what you meant in regards to that. It's just for people that haven't had to live those bloody double lives. Let's go back to what the agenda item actually is and Actually cover that. So you're a parent yourself. You've, you've been through, and we've all been through very similar experiences from the sounds, but anyway, right. What is it that we're all talking about when we're saying what part of our Eastern culture and Western culture should we then be passing over to our kids? And what should we not be passing? And the reason I asked this question, I mean, even yesterday I was asked, you know, are you pro or against, you know, our South Asian culture? I'm not on both because I think, you know, let's not. Yes, it's brilliant, and we are, but there are massive problems within our culture as well, and I think those, unfortunately, for many people, outweigh the positives. You know, we've got a lot of domestic abuse in our community, and it's not acceptable regardless. We do have gender inequality, but then is that an Eastern or a Western thing, because it happened in both cultures. So going back to the question, Mariam, now you've got your own kids. What are the positives you'd bring from the Eastern culture and Western culture and what would you take away from those as well? I would definitely take with me the Respect that we have for elders within our cultures. Love that because I do feel like it is really deteriorating in this generation Maybe not so in the way that we experienced it But definitely the values when it comes to respect of our elders and taking wisdom from them The other thing I would obviously Language. Language is something very very close to my heart. So important to me. I mean my mom absolutely forced me to go to Saturday school and all those sort of things, but I'm doing exactly the same thing because it's really really important to me and now I understand it, right? The element of food. Gosh, never could get rid of that. Family and community. I think as a mother, that is something that is so dear to my heart, because I think the way that, and I think a lot of, I guess the West, I would say, is definitely learning and picking up from other cultures when it comes to that, because actually now we're realising that the grandparents took look after, you know, you had the rest of the extended family and I'm sure that wasn't easy, but you never had to worry about where we were. what we were doing, who we were with, what we were watching. And she agrees, she goes, no, we never had that mental exhaustion where we had to worry where you are because you were, you were with your cousins, right? And we never had to worry about that. And I think for me, that's so, and I'm not looking at this in a rose tinted eye. Like we said, there is a lot, you know, Domestic violence and abuse and emotional verbal, what have you. So I'm not being, you know, naive, but I think that element of family is so important because it's multi generational, isn't it? We were always meant to parent communally. You know, it takes a village as they say it takes a village to raise a child, but it also takes a village to support and raise a mother as well. And we can't be everything you know like my girls, we have, I've got three sisters like I said, they've got their aunties and if I can't explain something you know the other day we were talking about puberty and I said, Oh, How do I go about this? You know, you go and have that conversation, you know, there's something small, something small like that. And I think that's really important to me. So yes, a language, what did I say, family, I think community and respect for elders, definitely things that I would take from our culture. What I would remove is obviously I think the normalizing of emotional and physical abuse when it comes to parenting because I think that falls under the tough love type thing doesn't it which again I've got a lot of opinion on that but yeah removing that but still keeping the element of limits and boundaries because they're very very important but just creating an environment of love You know, an environment of love and joy in a household where they're not having to walk on eggshells and just keeping an open communication, open relationship, but still keeping that standing of, you know, I am your mom and I am your parent and therefore there might be some things that you don't like, but it's okay because I feel I experienced the same as well. Shut up and listen to me. The fact that everything you've just said, and you know, me and Taja's sister, so we're going to agree on this bit. We've gone through a very, very, very similar upbringing to yourself. And I know not everyone would have had that. So we lived with our grandparents. We were with our cousins and, but it sounds spot on exactly. Yeah, we get it. And I think that's the nice thing, even between this conversation, it's been such an easy conversation because we get where you're coming from because we've been exactly in the same place. And that, you know, we are very lucky to have been in that place as well. As we come to the end of this episode, and I've really, I genuinely, I've really enjoyed it because it's just been such an easy conversation. What would you, what advice would you give a new parent who is, and all of us in fact actually, not even a new parent, because we're all going through very similar experiences with no matter what age our kids are. What is your advice for parents who are, who do have the traditional parents but have been brought up in in the UK or the western countries. Yeah, I would say this is I would say somewhere along your journey you are going to have to make peace with the fact that someone, somewhere, they are going to think that you're a bad mom. Or they are going to think that you're a bad wife. And the reason why I say that is that someone somewhere could be your own mother. It could be someone very, very close to you. And that's not because they're a horrible person or you're a horrible person. It's just because the standards of what a good mother or good parent is comes from their own experiences. Negative or positive? And obviously mothering has changed in the sense that we've learnt that actually I'm not going to self sacrifice and burn myself down to the ground for my kids because actually that's not good for them and it's not good for me. So in you prioritising yourself, someone might think, oh she's really lazy, look at her and you know, I did all of that for my kids and look at her, she's not doing anything. So you have to make peace with that. You can't convince everyone and you don't need to convince everyone that you are a good mother and also to have empathy with the older generation that sometimes their mindset can't change because they just can't, they've just been, they're just set in their ways for however many years and Yes, you can still try and have these open conversations, if you're able to, because some, some are not, you know, and it's not because they're horrible people, it's just when you understand what they've experienced, and maybe even looking into the history a little bit, that would It opens up your mind a little bit into understanding why they are the way they are. So there is a little bit of, I guess, empathy. Because I'll tell you something just as we end off. Me and my dad, me and my father growing up, we didn't have a great relationship. Like, especially as a team, we really didn't. I don't know if it's an eldest daughter and a dad thing. We just clashed. But now, if my dad ever needs anything, He calls me. If he wants to talk about something, he calls me. And this is not to say that he doesn't say anything annoying or triggering to me, like he still does, but I see through that now, and I see through that, and I see that the experiences that he's had growing up, and I see that, and whether or not he accepts that that's what he experienced, like he wouldn't, like he's still a 60 plus old man, bless him, so he's not going to talk about those things. But I see that now, and I get it, I understand. So to anybody that's listening, I would say that. make peace with the fact that there is someone who's going to think that maybe you're not good enough and that doesn't, it's not going to translate. on you. And secondly, yes, the older generation are stuck in their ways, but there's a lot of wisdom and insight that we can learn from them and we can take from them if we give ourselves that opportunity. And the third thing I would say is now, now you're in the driver's seat. Now you're in the reins and you have that power to change all of those cultural norms. Collectively, we all have that power. So, We can change culture. Take the good, leave the bad, and create our own. And I think you, you've finished that, that, that, very long summary to be fair. I think you smashed it with the third one as well. We are in the driving seat, you're 100 percent right. And it's how we drive it, because like you said earlier, culture is essentially, It's changeable and we are part of this culture and this community. So you know, I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us, Maryam. You know, we've we finally got there. I mean, for the listeners, try to arrange this podcast. I mean, don't get on this homeschooling because that's going to have to be another podcast that we ever put. But thank you for your time today, Maryam. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, ladies. Honestly, I'd just reiterate what you just said there. It felt so natural and just, I just feel like I'm sitting in with you ladies in my living room and I hope the, anyone that's listening has benefited and can relate as well. I wish we were because then Andy would be getting us about a year and a half. But anyway, that's goodbye from me. Goodbye from me.